oh it's the dragon.....what a strange old creature he is.
23 comments:
Anonymous
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First comment. Sup. This chapter had some really weird concepts. The Dragon's explanations of his mind were as brain shattering as Guy's class. The idea that he could see infinitely forward and backward seemed like it would really be terrible. I got the impression that the dragon was so advanced mentally as to not be bothered by the lack of meaning he was privy to though. It was some hard stuf to wrap my brain around and I almost wish I didn't. - Charlie
His words are so arrogant, I can't stand him at all. I want to hurl a hammer at his face if I got the chance, because for a dragon, sure being eternally knowledgeable is a gift, but why can't he see that? He knows that his realm of thinking is much higher than those of anyone else, but that does not give him the opportunity to scrutinize creatures like Grendel and the humans. Just because I know more than babies, I do not act as if they're stupid. Babies have invisible insight of their own. Grendel knows there is more than he is capable of understanding, but that does not mean that everything that the dragon says is true. Not everything a leader does is right. It is good to question someone who has more knowledge, wisdom, and power than you, but wisdom is not always pure. Neither is knowledge. It is those who truly use their power to teach others the goods and evils of the world that receive happiness. Hoarding gold is not it. Grendel is doing something greater than the dragon ever could, even if he is not as knowledgeable. Grendel is shaping the meaning for an entire race that shares the earth with him, he is shaping humanity as well as humanity's wisdom. The dragon? You may be smart but doing nothing with your wisdom is the same as complaining about violence and debating about it than to have a hunger strike over it. The difference between Grendel and the dragon is the difference between Gandhi and a smart teenager. No one speaks true words until you act upon them.It is what it is.
His words are so arrogant, I can't stand him at all. I want to hurl a hammer at his face if I got the chance, because for a dragon, sure being eternally knowledgeable is a gift, but why can't he see that? He knows that his realm of thinking is much higher than those of anyone else, but that does not give him the opportunity to scrutinize creatures like Grendel and the humans. Just because I know more than babies, I do not act as if they're stupid. Babies have invisible insight of their own. Grendel knows there is more than he is capable of understanding, but that does not mean that everything that the dragon says is true. Not everything a leader does is right. It is good to question someone who has more knowledge, wisdom, and power than you, but wisdom is not always pure. Neither is knowledge. It is those who truly use their power to teach others the goods and evils of the world that receive happiness. Hoarding gold is not it. Grendel is doing something greater than the dragon ever could, even if he is not as knowledgeable. Grendel is shaping the meaning for an entire race that shares the earth with him, he is shaping humanity as well as humanity's wisdom. The dragon? You may be smart but doing nothing with your wisdom is the same as complaining about violence and debating about it than to have a hunger strike over it. The difference between Grendel and the dragon is the difference between Gandhi and a smart teenager. No one speaks true words until you act upon them.It is what it is.
I have mixed feelings on the dragon character. In some sense, I like him. I think it's so far out to be in the realm where all of time is happening at once. I mean, I can't even wrap my brain around that as a concept. The dragon's intelligence is far greater than we can know and though he is a bit cocky and stuck up, he is also calm and collected. He's free. All worry and stress has left him which leaves him as a thoughtful but selfish dragon. When he says "all things come and go", that is a very intelligent. It's very much the truth. The thing I don't like about the dragon is the fact that he makes Grendel feel more awful and confused about himself than he was before. He's messing with his brain. I also kind of like the whole idea of Nihilism, that everything is meaningless. Because it kind of is, stuff happens that you can't control. All of that is meaningless. I don't know it's kind of an interesting subject.
this was the most confusing chapter in the book so far. the dragon says things that are above grendel and he is trying so hard to understand but he just can't. imagine finding the one person who can finally explain why whats happening is happening, and you can't even understand him. and after a long conversation explaining it all, the only thing the dragon has to offer grendel, the only bit of information, is find gold. seek it out. sit on it. what help is this? we don't know if it is useful, it is confusing.
I think the dragon is a bit senile... he starts laughing one second and then he's like "You didn't pee on MY TREASURE did you?" But he does know a lot about the world. He already knows what has already been, will be, and is. He knows all, and that is a CURSE in and of itself. It's one thing to know what people are thinking, but to know everything, and not being able to do ANYTHING different, it would be HORRIBLE!!!! It's like somebody telling you "Your going to be an artist (or whatever) and thats all you can and ever will be." and to know that, and not be able to do ANYTHING could either crush you or be a "joyful" occasion. But I think it more likely that it would crush you. To know that you can never be anything else, that any dream you had is utterly destroyed because, you will be an artist, or a math teacher, or a monster like Grendel, no choice you make will make a difference, it will just have you speed towards your ultimate resting point, and you could be resentful because you didn't have a choice. Last thing: If you know the EXACT day that you would die, would you be happy about it? I think that most people think that "Oh! That's when and how I die, I'll just avoid such and such and I'll be fine! :3" But NO, THINK. YOU WILL DIE ANYWAY, BUT DEATH BEING UNPREDICTABLE IS THE GREATEST GIFT OF ALL!!!! That means you don't have to think, "That's gonna be the last time I do that... For reals." you never know! That way you can enjoy your life.
This chapter was very subtle in all its content. It was hard to tell what was actually being said or going. The chapter starts by detaching from reality because it doesn't een mention how he really, physically met the dragon which interested to me. He was just there all of a sudden. Also the appearance of the lion was another subtlety it was hidden in the roar of the lion. Overall I thought the dragon was a very interesting character. A sort of ancient omnipotent creature with many different views and philosophies. It's amazing seeing culture evolve in so many ways through the telling of such a simple tale. This chapter in particular was very hard to understand though. There were many interesting concepts presented like the nihilism and the daoist beliefs of the dragon.
I'm not sure if this chapter made me like the dragon anymore than I had already liked him. He seems cool but he isn't very cheerful as Grendel used to be. Maybe that's because Grendel is a different creature or maybe it is just because the Dragon has the ability to see what has happened, what is happening and what is going to happen. This chapter was confusing until we reviewed it. :3 (THANKS AMY). The dragon is even more depressing than Grendel. I however like the idea of having a character that is able to see the future but not be able to change it because it sort of shows just how intelligent these creatures that Beowulf claims to save the kingdom from really are.
Ok! This chapter just maybe the most confusing chapter. Only because, whenever the dragon/ John Gardner tries to explain, whatever he is trying to explain, it's just confusing. My brain does not understand it at all haha. But I think how it's real cool how John Gardner makes it so it's like the dragon is way more complex and mystical than any of us can imagine to handle, including Grendal. The mysterious thing though is, how can John Gardner right that and I have no clue what it means, and no human is. He must be like, an alien or something O.O Haha in the end the dragon has to compare his explanation to vegetables, just so Grendal can get the gist of it.
this chapter had some really weird ideas coming from both grendel and the dragon. The dragon seemed so smart that no one could really understand him. Its almost like a form of crazy being that smart. Grendel on the other hand is much more understandable. I still love the views of the humans that grendel and the dragon share. Most of what the dragon said i cant even rap my mind around. It is the most confusing speech ever. Overall i really like the chapter and cant wait to read more things that make me feel like i am loosing my mind hahah.
The dragon seems miserable to me. He already knows all there is to know, and he must be bored out of his mind. Not only that, but he already knows he's going to be bored. There's nothing in life that can surprise him, and no emotion will ever be untempered by disappointment. He doesn't bother trying to communicate with Grendel one-on-one, because he knows that it wouldn't work. The dragon's cynicism and bitterness probably stem from the fact that he can't escape what he knows. He even knows what other creatures' lives are like, and it's possible that he knows even better than they themselves.
Even though the dragon is an utter jackass, I can't say I blame him.
In this chapter I almost hate Grendel... Before you think I'm a jerk though, let me explain why. In this chapter Grendel reminds me of... well me! He acts almost exactly how I act when I am trying desperately to grasp something in anything. Violin, singing, or any class. It's soooo pathetic! So from now on I'm not going to act that way. I'll put myself out there and if I'm right then that's fine by me! I wrong, then all that will happen is a correction... Although, I don't think the dragon is like any teacher at waverly...
I feel bad for the dragon in this chapter, but I would also be scared to be near him. He is weary and tired of knowing everything and seeing all time. I think he wants to know what it's like to learn new things, but then again, he says his mind is far more superior than any other creature's. He's gentle like a wise old man sometimes and then he has a huge mood swing and gets really angry. It's like when he tells Grendel to stand to the side do he doesn't get burnt and then turns on him and singes his hair. I would be really frightened to be in Grendel's position not because it's a dragon, but because the dragon is so intimidating and intelligent. It's always a little nerve racking to talk to anyone higher than you.
Uggh. I don't even... Whaa? First of all, this whole "seeing all space and time at the same time" stuff makes me really mad. How can he see the future and not change it. Only if you choose (or suck at life) can you actually be able to NOT change the future. 'Oh! I chose the chocolate instead of the fruit. I got fat, so when the time actually comes, I will choose the fruit.' SIMPLE!!!!!!! It makes me so angry, and I hate talking about it.
I do like agree with Madeleine. The dragon must be really bored already knowing everything.
I felt just as confused as Grendel in this chapter. I understood the idea of the dragon's sight of all time and space but I vaguely understood his explanation of seeing everything in the world. Poor Grendel kept annoying the dragon with all his confusion but it's only because he doesn't have the ability to see everything like a dragon. The dragon could be a little more understanding of other creatures and their inferior view of the world.
I find it amusing that the dragon gets frustrated every time he tries to explain to Grendel what is he purpose of the Shaper. At the same time, I understand Grendel's confusion towards the dragon because of how he puts his explanation towards the Shaper and the world. The dragon's frustration was pretty hilarious because of the 6 times he tries to have an explanation for Grendel to understand, only 1/6 somewhat makes sense to Grendel. Moreover, I feel pity towards the dragon because of how he has the ability to know the past, present, and future all at once. Knowing what comes next or what happens in the past must be awful, because you will always know what happens or what's going to happen and you cannot do anything about it.
This chapter was defiantly very interesting and also had some weird concepts. Some of the thing was how t we can only see one point of time at a time while the dragon can see all the time points at the same time (past, present, and the future). It seems really weird that the dragon can tell the future. Also I though that it was funny how the dragon told him to go get his own gold but just not his (the dragon's) gold.
The dragon is type of character I've never seen before. His ability to see all of time from beginning to end is fascinating. He seems like he has to constantly remember where and when he is, so he doesn't reveal too many secrets of the universe. I think he holds himself in high standard, and talks down to poor scared Grendel, who is trying to grasp what the dragon is saying. It seems like bearing the knowledge of time from the beginning to the end would be quite taxing!
In this chapter, I found the dragon to be incredibly awesome and interesting. It just really boggles my mind that the dragon can see all of space and time. I am very curious about how that would work and what it would be like to able to see that sort of thing. I also like how the dragon, like Grendel, is much more intelligent in this book than in the story of Beowulf. In the story of Beowulf, the dragon is the ultimate foe and Grendel is a foe, too, but Grendel is not as formidable of a foe as the dragon is. In this book, instead of the dragon being the ultimate foe, he is like the ultimate wise creature and Grendel is also intelligent like the dragon, but not as much. You see in this book, instead of the dragon and Grendel being the ultimate enemy and the other enemy, the dragon and Grendel are the ultimate intelligent creature and the other intelligent creature.
I feel like being the dragon would be terribly boring. I mean, he can see everything that has happened and everything that will happen, so there is nothing that he can learn or look forward to. He already knows it all. Something that I have been trying to figure out is what the dragon is. I know he is real, but sometimes I feel like he might not be… let me explain. At times Grendel says that he feels himself falling towards the dragon, almost as if the dragon is a part of Grendel himself. But at the same time, we know that Beowulf kills the dragon, so that couldn’t all just be in Grendel’s imagination, could it? Then, I came back to solipsism. The only thing you know for sure, is you. So in the book, couldn’t everything just be Grendel’s imagination? However, at the same time we know it’s not. Grendel doesn’t understand everything that happens in the world and he does get hurt by the things around him, so we know that they aren’t his imagination. It’s all very mind boggling to me.
For me, this was a very hard chapter to follow. I felt like Grendel trying to understand the teachings of the dragon. I don't know if it was out of kindness or pure arrogance that the dragon was simplifying concepts of life and time to Grendel. I think the dragon needs to be more understanding of those who are not his intellectual equals. In spite of all of the dragon's negativity towards Grendel, he does mention that Grendel is the reason why mankind is the way it is.
23 comments:
First comment. Sup.
This chapter had some really weird concepts. The Dragon's explanations of his mind were as brain shattering as Guy's class. The idea that he could see infinitely forward and backward seemed like it would really be terrible. I got the impression that the dragon was so advanced mentally as to not be bothered by the lack of meaning he was privy to though. It was some hard stuf to wrap my brain around and I almost wish I didn't.
- Charlie
His words are so arrogant, I can't stand him at all. I want to hurl a hammer at his face if I got the chance, because for a dragon, sure being eternally knowledgeable is a gift, but why can't he see that? He knows that his realm of thinking is much higher than those of anyone else, but that does not give him the opportunity to scrutinize creatures like Grendel and the humans. Just because I know more than babies, I do not act as if they're stupid. Babies have invisible insight of their own.
Grendel knows there is more than he is capable of understanding, but that does not mean that everything that the dragon says is true.
Not everything a leader does is right. It is good to question someone who has more knowledge, wisdom, and power than you, but wisdom is not always pure. Neither is knowledge. It is those who truly use their power to teach others the goods and evils of the world that receive happiness. Hoarding gold is not it.
Grendel is doing something greater than the dragon ever could, even if he is not as knowledgeable. Grendel is shaping the meaning for an entire race that shares the earth with him, he is shaping humanity as well as humanity's wisdom. The dragon? You may be smart but doing nothing with your wisdom is the same as complaining about violence and debating about it than to have a hunger strike over it. The difference between Grendel and the dragon is the difference between Gandhi and a smart teenager. No one speaks true words until you act upon them.It is what it is.
His words are so arrogant, I can't stand him at all. I want to hurl a hammer at his face if I got the chance, because for a dragon, sure being eternally knowledgeable is a gift, but why can't he see that? He knows that his realm of thinking is much higher than those of anyone else, but that does not give him the opportunity to scrutinize creatures like Grendel and the humans. Just because I know more than babies, I do not act as if they're stupid. Babies have invisible insight of their own.
Grendel knows there is more than he is capable of understanding, but that does not mean that everything that the dragon says is true.
Not everything a leader does is right. It is good to question someone who has more knowledge, wisdom, and power than you, but wisdom is not always pure. Neither is knowledge. It is those who truly use their power to teach others the goods and evils of the world that receive happiness. Hoarding gold is not it.
Grendel is doing something greater than the dragon ever could, even if he is not as knowledgeable. Grendel is shaping the meaning for an entire race that shares the earth with him, he is shaping humanity as well as humanity's wisdom. The dragon? You may be smart but doing nothing with your wisdom is the same as complaining about violence and debating about it than to have a hunger strike over it. The difference between Grendel and the dragon is the difference between Gandhi and a smart teenager. No one speaks true words until you act upon them.It is what it is.
I have mixed feelings on the dragon character. In some sense, I like him. I think it's so far out to be in the realm where all of time is happening at once. I mean, I can't even wrap my brain around that as a concept. The dragon's intelligence is far greater than we can know and though he is a bit cocky and stuck up, he is also calm and collected. He's free. All worry and stress has left him which leaves him as a thoughtful but selfish dragon. When he says "all things come and go", that is a very intelligent. It's very much the truth. The thing I don't like about the dragon is the fact that he makes Grendel feel more awful and confused about himself than he was before. He's messing with his brain. I also kind of like the whole idea of Nihilism, that everything is meaningless. Because it kind of is, stuff happens that you can't control. All of that is meaningless. I don't know it's kind of an interesting subject.
this was the most confusing chapter in the book so far. the dragon says things that are above grendel and he is trying so hard to understand but he just can't. imagine finding the one person who can finally explain why whats happening is happening, and you can't even understand him. and after a long conversation explaining it all, the only thing the dragon has to offer grendel, the only bit of information, is find gold. seek it out. sit on it. what help is this? we don't know if it is useful, it is confusing.
I think the dragon is a bit senile... he starts laughing one second and then he's like "You didn't pee on MY TREASURE did you?" But he does know a lot about the world. He already knows what has already been, will be, and is. He knows all, and that is a CURSE in and of itself. It's one thing to know what people are thinking, but to know everything, and not being able to do ANYTHING different, it would be HORRIBLE!!!! It's like somebody telling you "Your going to be an artist (or whatever) and thats all you can and ever will be." and to know that, and not be able to do ANYTHING could either crush you or be a "joyful" occasion. But I think it more likely that it would crush you.
To know that you can never be anything else, that any dream you had is utterly destroyed because, you will be an artist, or a math teacher, or a monster like Grendel, no choice you make will make a difference, it will just have you speed towards your ultimate resting point, and you could be resentful because you didn't have a choice.
Last thing: If you know the EXACT day that you would die, would you be happy about it? I think that most people think that "Oh! That's when and how I die, I'll just avoid such and such and I'll be fine! :3" But NO, THINK. YOU WILL DIE ANYWAY, BUT DEATH BEING UNPREDICTABLE IS THE GREATEST GIFT OF ALL!!!! That means you don't have to think, "That's gonna be the last time I do that... For reals." you never know! That way you can enjoy your life.
This chapter was very subtle in all its content. It was hard to tell what was actually being said or going. The chapter starts by detaching from reality because it doesn't een mention how he really, physically met the dragon which interested to me. He was just there all of a sudden. Also the appearance of the lion was another subtlety it was hidden in the roar of the lion. Overall I thought the dragon was a very interesting character. A sort of ancient omnipotent creature with many different views and philosophies. It's amazing seeing culture evolve in so many ways through the telling of such a simple tale. This chapter in particular was very hard to understand though. There were many interesting concepts presented like the nihilism and the daoist beliefs of the dragon.
I'm not sure if this chapter made me like the dragon anymore than I had already liked him. He seems cool but he isn't very cheerful as Grendel used to be. Maybe that's because Grendel is a different creature or maybe it is just because the Dragon has the ability to see what has happened, what is happening and what is going to happen. This chapter was confusing until we reviewed it. :3 (THANKS AMY). The dragon is even more depressing than Grendel. I however like the idea of having a character that is able to see the future but not be able to change it because it sort of shows just how intelligent these creatures that Beowulf claims to save the kingdom from really are.
Ok! This chapter just maybe the most confusing chapter. Only because, whenever the dragon/ John Gardner tries to explain, whatever he is trying to explain, it's just confusing. My brain does not understand it at all haha. But I think how it's real cool how John Gardner makes it so it's like the dragon is way more complex and mystical than any of us can imagine to handle, including Grendal. The mysterious thing though is, how can John Gardner right that and I have no clue what it means, and no human is. He must be like, an alien or something O.O Haha in the end the dragon has to compare his explanation to vegetables, just so Grendal can get the gist of it.
this chapter had some really weird ideas coming from both grendel and the dragon. The dragon seemed so smart that no one could really understand him. Its almost like a form of crazy being that smart. Grendel on the other hand is much more understandable. I still love the views of the humans that grendel and the dragon share. Most of what the dragon said i cant even rap my mind around. It is the most confusing speech ever. Overall i really like the chapter and cant wait to read more things that make me feel like i am loosing my mind hahah.
The dragon seems miserable to me. He already knows all there is to know, and he must be bored out of his mind. Not only that, but he already knows he's going to be bored. There's nothing in life that can surprise him, and no emotion will ever be untempered by disappointment. He doesn't bother trying to communicate with Grendel one-on-one, because he knows that it wouldn't work. The dragon's cynicism and bitterness probably stem from the fact that he can't escape what he knows. He even knows what other creatures' lives are like, and it's possible that he knows even better than they themselves.
Even though the dragon is an utter jackass, I can't say I blame him.
In this chapter I almost hate Grendel... Before you think I'm a jerk though, let me explain why.
In this chapter Grendel reminds me of... well me! He acts almost exactly how I act when I am trying desperately to grasp something in anything. Violin, singing, or any class. It's soooo pathetic! So from now on I'm not going to act that way. I'll put myself out there and if I'm right then that's fine by me! I wrong, then all that will happen is a correction... Although, I don't think the dragon is like any teacher at waverly...
I feel bad for the dragon in this chapter, but I would also be scared to be near him. He is weary and tired of knowing everything and seeing all time. I think he wants to know what it's like to learn new things, but then again, he says his mind is far more superior than any other creature's. He's gentle like a wise old man sometimes and then he has a huge mood swing and gets really angry. It's like when he tells Grendel to stand to the side do he doesn't get burnt and then turns on him and singes his hair.
I would be really frightened to be in Grendel's position not because it's a dragon, but because the dragon is so intimidating and intelligent. It's always a little nerve racking to talk to anyone higher than you.
Uggh. I don't even... Whaa? First of all, this whole "seeing all space and time at the same time" stuff makes me really mad. How can he see the future and not change it. Only if you choose (or suck at life) can you actually be able to NOT change the future. 'Oh! I chose the chocolate instead of the fruit. I got fat, so when the time actually comes, I will choose the fruit.' SIMPLE!!!!!!! It makes me so angry, and I hate talking about it.
I do like agree with Madeleine. The dragon must be really bored already knowing everything.
I felt just as confused as Grendel in this chapter. I understood the idea of the dragon's sight of all time and space but I vaguely understood his explanation of seeing everything in the world. Poor Grendel kept annoying the dragon with all his confusion but it's only because he doesn't have the ability to see everything like a dragon. The dragon could be a little more understanding of other creatures and their inferior view of the world.
I find it amusing that the dragon gets frustrated every time he tries to explain to Grendel what is he purpose of the Shaper. At the same time, I understand Grendel's confusion towards the dragon because of how he puts his explanation towards the Shaper and the world. The dragon's frustration was pretty hilarious because of the 6 times he tries to have an explanation for Grendel to understand, only 1/6 somewhat makes sense to Grendel. Moreover, I feel pity towards the dragon because of how he has the ability to know the past, present, and future all at once. Knowing what comes next or what happens in the past must be awful, because you will always know what happens or what's going to happen and you cannot do anything about it.
This chapter was defiantly very interesting and also had some weird concepts. Some of the thing was how t we can only see one point of time at a time while the dragon can see all the time points at the same time (past, present, and the future). It seems really weird that the dragon can tell the future. Also I though that it was funny how the dragon told him to go get his own gold but just not his (the dragon's) gold.
The dragon is type of character I've never seen before. His ability to see all of time from beginning to end is fascinating. He seems like he has to constantly remember where and when he is, so he doesn't reveal too many secrets of the universe. I think he holds himself in high standard, and talks down to poor scared Grendel, who is trying to grasp what the dragon is saying. It seems like bearing the knowledge of time from the beginning to the end would be quite taxing!
In this chapter, I found the dragon to be incredibly awesome and interesting. It just really boggles my mind that the dragon can see all of space and time. I am very curious about how that would work and what it would be like to able to see that sort of thing. I also like how the dragon, like Grendel, is much more intelligent in this book than in the story of Beowulf. In the story of Beowulf, the dragon is the ultimate foe and Grendel is a foe, too, but Grendel is not as formidable of a foe as the dragon is. In this book, instead of the dragon being the ultimate foe, he is like the ultimate wise creature and Grendel is also intelligent like the dragon, but not as much. You see in this book, instead of the dragon and Grendel being the ultimate enemy and the other enemy, the dragon and Grendel are the ultimate intelligent creature and the other intelligent creature.
I feel like being the dragon would be terribly boring. I mean, he can see everything that has happened and everything that will happen, so there is nothing that he can learn or look forward to. He already knows it all. Something that I have been trying to figure out is what the dragon is. I know he is real, but sometimes I feel like he might not be… let me explain. At times Grendel says that he feels himself falling towards the dragon, almost as if the dragon is a part of Grendel himself. But at the same time, we know that Beowulf kills the dragon, so that couldn’t all just be in Grendel’s imagination, could it? Then, I came back to solipsism. The only thing you know for sure, is you. So in the book, couldn’t everything just be Grendel’s imagination? However, at the same time we know it’s not. Grendel doesn’t understand everything that happens in the world and he does get hurt by the things around him, so we know that they aren’t his imagination. It’s all very mind boggling to me.
-Robin
For me, this was a very hard chapter to follow. I felt like Grendel trying to understand the teachings of the dragon. I don't know if it was out of kindness or pure arrogance that the dragon was simplifying concepts of life and time to Grendel. I think the dragon needs to be more understanding of those who are not his intellectual equals. In spite of all of the dragon's negativity towards Grendel, he does mention that Grendel is the reason why mankind is the way it is.
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